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Thread: Comparison of lossless PNG compression tools

  1. #31
    Member caveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AiZ View Post
    Merci ! I'd never thought that a "vanilla" pngout would take it any further...

    Last script I've used to obtain my current set was plain ScriptPNG, after a (long) pass of a simplified pngslim.
    I also ran pngslim on these files (after having expanded them) and it produced only files bigger than yours, this is strange since it should have run with the -n1 -f5 switches, I'll investigate if there's a bug in pngslim.

    Thanks to M4ST3R I tried a pngout alone.
    Last edited by caveman; 23rd February 2010 at 16:22.

  2. #32
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    pngslim and other scripts make a few assumptions about what switches to use, most don't seem to use /n# but you can get some great results with it.
    I spent something stupid like 18 hours(08:00 to gone 02:00 the next day) on Friday knocking up a new script which really brute forces using every combination of switches and /b# with pngout. So half the day testing that script on a load of PNGs, then the rest of the day writing a new "intelligent" script that tries a non-brute force way to get the smallest file. It's not ready to release yet but hopefully someday it'll will be, although i did my usual thing of getting my mind stuck on something which i then work non-stop on then get bored the next day and move onto something else ;p
    Another example is some scripts assume for paletted images to only use /f# 0 or 5, but i found a bunch of images which worked best with the other filter types. Another few images even though they had less than 256 colours preferred having their colour type set to RGB(24Bit).

  3. #33
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    Red face

    <Off Topic>

    Hi,

    I know it's not fair but i've added WQHD image (new 27" Dell) and therefore modified the data set, it's now at 53452 bytes. Anyone for breaking the 50K/51200 bytes limit? Intrinsic? caveman?


    AiZ


    P.S : All pngs processed with pngout /n1 /f5.

    </Off Topic>

  4. #34
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    you have to take some assumption t oreduce the amount of brute force.

    brtue forcing everi possiblie of delta filter typ5 would take more then the time of the univerrse on hi res pictures

  5. #35
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    <Off Topic>

    Hello,

    Last time I pollute this thread. Modified images, went from 22 to 15 colours (greys dithered), pngout's /n and /r switches game, etc. 47979 bytes. Will stay like this for a while...


    AiZ

    </Off Topic>

  6. #36
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    Reducing the amount of colours is cheating ;p and with 16 colours or under in PNGs you get a massive decrease(relatively speaking) anyway due to it needing to store less data per colour, 4bit vs 8bit(for 17 to 256 colours)

    Now i'm going back to sulking as i just died in Stone Soup due to stupidity(not watching my health bar)...

  7. #37
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    Well after a few weeks of doing very little on this i decided to clean it up slightly over the last few days and put it out for people to try.

    I have included in the archive all the required files including latest the PNGOUT & OptiPNG.

    The main batch file is ShrinkPNG.bat, ShrinkPNGLowPri will just run at low priority so you can be getting on with other stuff if you hand it a big file.

    It may have been easier to take something like pngslim and update it, but i started from scratch running my own tests so i could understand and learn as much about PNG as possible. So after having generated over 125k files here is the 1st version i feel comfortable letting the public see.
    It was just slightly annoying this morning that i found 1 file that pngslim beat me by 6 bytes on ;p which is purely down to PNGOUT having generated a slightly different palette index order. PNGOUT can be annoyingly random in this respect, as doing tests in one order will generate a different palette index order in another. And the file mentioned above that pngslim beat i can beat further by another 7 bytes doing trials in a different order O.o But on average my way seems better *touch wood* and in many cases slaughters what pngslim can do. Palette order is vital to 8Bit and under PNGs, and i have test files which my script beats pngslim on by over 20% in file size.
    But i'm letting that slide for now so i can get this out or i'll be fiddling some more for a few weeks.

    In the archive you'll notice pngslim-norand.cmd, this is just pngslim with the random trial stage removed as it's impossible to measure how 2 scripts compare when randomness is involved. To get the same effect in my script so you can compare the two just change the line "set RandomTrials=16" to "set RandomTrials=0" Just drop this pngslim-norand.cmd file into your existing pngslim directory.
    If you want to compare them using random trials you may want to change "set Rand_Trials=100" in the pngslim script to 16 to match mine.
    What i'd be grateful for is if you find any files which pngslim beats mine on even if only by a few bytes to send me a link to them so i can find out why. a PM or posting a link in this thread is fine.
    My script is still a mess with loads of comments and crap still in there and will stay that way until i feel it's in a state for more suitable for the mainstream public.
    Some of the vars specified near the top can be changed for more random trials etc.

    You'll notice plenty of odd ways of doing stuff in my script, like i don't just let pngout operate on the file i pass it directly, this is down to a what i think could be a bug i encountered in pngout with the /f switch which hurts compression. I need to send the suspect files to Ken but i lost them heh.
    Also you'll see i do deflopt, then advdef then deflopt again. As i found a few files where advdef hurt compression if run before deflopt. In reality advdef very rarely does better than pngout so you could argue that it's not worth the time, but it's very quick so i leave it in.

    I only added optipng to my script these last few days as i noticed it can do a pretty decent job of sorting the palette order, which as mentioned can make a big difference. There are still better ways to sort it but there are no command line tools which cater to my needs, so i may knock one up when(if) i learn how. Also very rarely it can beat pngout on some files, these tend to be very small(~96x96 24Bit) and i've only found 3 examples of it beating it so i need more.

    This script is aimed at 256 colours and under, and 24-Bit images. It currently doesn't support alpha channels or greyscale images. I do aim do add these in future until then pngslim is your best bet.

    This script is also much faster than pngslim, and output should be identical(unless running random trials, then it's pot luck) or beat pngslim, if not send me the offending files please. It also use /b over /n which most of the time gives smaller or the same size files, but a few files really like /n so i may work in some tests for them once i have more data, only have a handful of files that like /n over /b. But the differences i've observed are only a few bytes.

    I think that's all i wanted to say, hopefully someone will find it useful and feel free to ask any questions or offer ideas. This wall of text will also be in the readme.

    See below for latest update.
    Last edited by Intrinsic; 25th April 2010 at 10:26.

  8. #38
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    doesn't work for me


    Code:
    Target: mystica.png @ 829896 Bytes
    
    'pngout' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
    operable program or batch file.
    Colours: more than 256
    
    'pngout' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
    operable program or batch file.
    
    
    'pngout' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
    operable program or batch file.
    ( was unexpected at this time.

  9. #39
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    pngout isn't in your path somewhere, which i forgot to mention it needs to be woops. I can get around that by temporarily adding the current directory to %PATH% like pngslim does. And i just noticed an issue, if you drag and drop a file onto the .bat file it will overwrite your original file O.o see the above attachment for updated scripts. I'd recommend using ShrinkPNGLowPri.bat if you are doing it via drag n drop, or either is fine when running from the command line.
    Also it only accepts single files at this time afaik, unless you use something like Directory Opus which handles all that for you.

    Usage is ShrinkPNGLowPri.bat [filename] ie ShrinkPNGLowPri.bat Lena.png

    You can find the original file inside the created directory, named Original.png.

    Plus i forgot to mention some stuff. It doesn't overwrite the original file, but they will be inside a directory like Lena.png-bftemp for example.

    The final best output for each run will be named Optimised-Final.png inside the directory. If there is any files smaller than it in there notify me please and send me the original source file if possible.

    It also now exits correctly from the command line when running it via the LowPri.bat file.

    Hope that clears up a few more things.

  10. #40
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    I had ALL files in one folder and ran ShrinkPNG.bat (not low priority one). Neither current folder nor -bftemp i created worked. Now, the new 101 version (low priority) is running fine (it isn't finished but looks ok).
    Also, a minor thing - DeflOpt.exe is missing in the archive.
    EDIT:
    Nice!
    Code:
    Started at 23:42:53.13, ended at  0:25:44.92
    
    File: mystica.png
    Was shrunk from 829896 bytes to 786027 bytes
    That equates to 94% of it's original size having lost 43869 bytes
    And it was optimized already by PngSlim!

    Another even more minor thing: it says 'PNGShrink done' at the end, you should decide on the name i guess
    Last edited by jethro; 25th April 2010 at 01:32.

  11. #41
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    D'oh forgot DeflOpt sorry :/ i knew there would be some stupid things that'd get found thanks for finding them

    A few more things i forgot to mention. If letting it do random trials on a file, you can pass the same file again and if you left the -bftemp directory in place it will skip a bunch of steps and it will continue with more random trials which will save a nice chunk of time on bigger files. This can be improved on and is on my list.
    /s1 and /s2 switches aren't tried. /s1 rarely gives better results, and /s2 i think i only found 1 file so i will try and get /s1 in there. But again depending on the options chosen it can alter the palette index so really should be part of the initial test against /d /f and /b.
    There are a lot of random tests in my script for 8-bit and under images which can be removed so speed can be increased for them further. These are done to see what effect they had on palette order etc purely for testing / "debug" purposes. On my list.
    The feedback i give to the user isn't so friendly currently when running the script, but gives me useful info. I really like pngslim's output it's nice and clean. Unsure if i'll improve it as i don't think your average end user cares if it looks nice or not, just that it gives the best result.
    Format conversion is looking easy, ie gif/bmp to png. I can do that in the LowPri script and pass the converted file to the main script through that.
    Pretty sure there was another thing i was going to mention before forgot it now.

    My scripts were also mainly tested on files 640x512 and under files, more often images around ~128x128 from places like http://www.pixeljoint.com/

    Glad to see it improved that file vs pngslim, that's a massive gain(relatively speaking) But that also looks like a massive file which must have taken hours under pngslim to process if using the default 100 random trials per step.

    0.102
    Can now process files from anywhere, not just those located in the ShrinkPNG directory. May break Win2k compatibility though.
    Fixed block range test user output.
    Included missing DeflOpt...woops.
    Updated some comments in the script wrt PNGRewrite.

    Edit: Removed 0.102, see below for next version.
    Last edited by Intrinsic; 24th May 2010 at 22:20.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intrinsic View Post
    Glad to see it improved that file vs pngslim, that's a massive gain(relatively speaking) But that also looks like a massive file which must have taken hours under pngslim to process if using the default 100 random trials per step.
    ...Oops I guess it was not optimized by PNGSlim, sorry for that Anyway i was using PNGSlim which was modified for faster processing (there are tips for that in the readme) and LargeFileSize variable was obviously on, so the speed was on the verge of being bearable
    I've got many versions of my couple of test files lying around so i guess I'll do a fresh comparison from the beginning. It may take a while as some of them are big (even 2400x1633).

  13. #43
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    Images that size sound a bit overkill ;p so don't go too crazy heh as they take bloody ages. Typically i think these sorts of scripts are aimed at web-sized/game graphics and textures which tend to be on the smaller size.

    And the LargeFileSize in pngslim use /s1 for images over /s0 which will give a nice speed boost. I may knockup an s1 version of my script for bigger images to speed things up, or could switch to using optipng as it is faster than pngout, but rarely gets close to the compression. If i didn't want my script collecting all the data i use it would be far simpler to use optipng with some pngout trials, so that's an option i may look at in the future.

  14. #44
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrinsic View Post
    [snip]

    0.102
    Can now process files from anywhere, not just those located in the ShrinkPNG directory. May break Win2k compatibility though.
    Fixed block range test user output.
    Included missing DeflOpt...woops.
    Updated some comments in the script wrt PNGRewrite.
    Perhaps you can help me. I've downloaded and unzipped into it's own directory. When I drag/drop a PNG onto ShrinkPNG.bat or run it from a command line, like:

    Code:
    C:\PNG tests\1>ShrinkPNG.bat "C:\PNG tests\1\256 original ShrinkPNG.pn
    g"
    I get the following:

    Code:
    Target: 256 original ShrinkPNG.png @ 966789 Bytes
    
    Colours: 256 or less
    Can't read file DataSize.png
    /f0 /b0 /d8
    ( was unexpected at this time.

  15. #45
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    Heya, thanks for picking up on this. The reason this is happening is that it doesn't like spaces in the filename currently, spaces in the directory name are fine though.
    I just use _ for spaces in my filenames so never picked up on this woops.

    I will look into getting this fixed for the next minor version just been hammered recently.

    Edit: New version.

    0.104
    Fixed it not liking spaces in the filename. %~nx1 doesn't automagically add "'s around a filename if it contains spaces like %1 does.

    0.103
    Added another OptiPNG trial. Still need more data before i can turn it into a loop, if it's even worth it with only 4 files so far found out of hundreds where OptiPNG makes a difference.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Intrinsic; 24th May 2010 at 22:17.

  16. #46
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    New version:
    0.201 - 09th June 2010
    Added CleanUp & ReplaceOriginal options. This makes it more user friendly for those that don't care what happens behind the scenes and just want the final result. As default CleanUp=YES. If both are set to YES then CleanUp gets priority.
    If CleanUp is set to YES then the temporary working directory will be removed and the processed file will be saved with -shrunk in the filename, ie cow-shrunk.png
    If ReplaceOriginal is set to YES then the temporary working directory will be removed and the original file will be renamed to ie cow-original.png and then the processed file will be saved under the original name ie cow.png.
    In both cases if the processed file fails to beat the original size no changes will be made.
    Minor cosmetic changes.

    Additional pngslim-samerandtrials.cmd file. This just the same amount of random trial steps that mine has for speed comparison to a certain extent, as with anything random it's random. The readme.txt has more info on this.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  17. #47
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    Just thought I'd add that i have a version i was working on that now covers all types of PNGs. But i've had to stop most my computer usage because i got RSI/Carpel Tunnel and it's in no state to be released, hopefully one day i'll be able to finish it.

  18. #48
    Member Vacon's Avatar
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    Hello everyone,

    *ouch...*
    hope you will get better soon (not for providing us with a new version of ShrinkPNG, but for having fun again on computing). Some relatives of mine suffer from the same problem, so I do know what you are talking about.

    Edit: possibly a temporary replacement for mouse and keyboard -> http://www.simon-listens.org/ To be honest: I hardly believe I could get used to to talk to my computer. Well, besides some dirty curses sometimes

    Best regards!
    Last edited by Vacon; 4th October 2010 at 14:30.

  19. #49
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    It was crazily painful(my hands would stop working, yes i was an idiot and left it way way too long) when i finally went to see the doctors, and my own fault for just trying to live with it. And now i'm screwed on computer usage for upto a year possibly. I have todo hand/wrist/arms/shoulder/back exercises every 20-30 mins, and NOT use the computer ;p but i just limit my time on here and do no gaming/programming.

  20. #50
    Member m^2's Avatar
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    2 Intristic:
    I have 2 comments about ShrinkPng:
    1. pause isn't good for batch processing. I suggest that you remove it.
    2. After shrinking is done I get an error:
    ShrinkPNG Done
    (EXIT) was unexpected at this time.
    This doesn't help with batch processing either.
    I suggest
    Code:
    goto :eof
    Last edited by m^2; 27th January 2011 at 11:42.

  21. #51
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    The pause is just something i left in there accidentally while i was debugging, easy to remove ;p only appears in /c3 images afaik. I lost track of where i was anyways as had started a total rewrite as it was a mess code wise.

    That odd exit could be a failure somewhere unless it seems fine, or you can also add DOPUS to the calling line at the end ie i have it set as a context menu option(see linked img for examples) in explorer which calls:
    start /wait /low shrinkpng {file} DOPUS

    So it EXITs differently, which may solve the problem. I've made some small updates to it last year so maybe i could do a quick clean up to remove annoying things like that.

    I have also started very slowely on another little tool to help in dev as there have been some new PNG related tools released which help compression, dumps all the data out as a CSV so i can more easily examine the data. ie:

    "Strategy","ColourType","Filter","BlockSplitThresh old","HuffmanBlocks","ColourDepth","PaletteSort"," Size","Notes "
    1,2,3,,7,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,128,,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,136,,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,144,,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,152,,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,,8,24,,213156,
    1,2,3,112,,24,,213156,
    1,2,3,120,,24,,213156,
    1,2,3,,9,24,,213206,
    1,2,3,96,,24,,213206,
    1,2,3,104,,24,,213206,

    Plus it runs in 4 threads atm so it's pretty quick on multicore CPUs. ShrinkPNG could be made multithreaded with some work. Testing on small files in XP though is odd with 2+ threads running, as it goes nuts and sometimes just resets my machine, in Win7 it's fine. So I guess it's an XP issue and would add a note/option regarding that to switch to single thread on XP if using small files. Would be interesting to also see if others have this same problem in XP or if it's just me ;p
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PNGChoices.png 
Views:	586 
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ID:	1474  

  22. #52
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    PNG COMPARISON x LOSSLESS COMPRESSION TOOLS

    Hello everybody,I tested myself the files attached finding better compression!!!See yourself the file png "comparison".As proof you can find the files compressed too!!!ByeEmilcont
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	comparison.png 
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ID:	1477   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1_original.png 
Views:	702 
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ID:	1478   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2_original.png 
Views:	770 
Size:	18.1 KB 
ID:	1479   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	4_original.png 
Views:	698 
Size:	89.5 KB 
ID:	1480  

  23. #53
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    Have you found the time to work on it since January? I would be able to test in XP if you still need that.

    Also, using version .201 BETA, when I run ShrinkPNG.bat from the command line, I get something like:

    Code:
    c:\tools\ShrinkPNG>ShrinkPNG.bat "c:\tools\ShrinkPNG\flag_red.png"
    File: flag_red.png @ 665 Bytes
    
    Colours: 256 or less
    Access is denied.
    /f0 /b0 /d8
    955 was unexpected at this time.
    The batch quits and the command prompt is left inside a flag_red.png-shtemp folder underneath the folder the batch was run from. Inside that flag_red.png-shtemp folder is a bunch of iterations of the image. The original file is left as is.

    However, if I drag & drop a file onto the .bat file, I get this:

    Code:
    File: flag_red2.png @ 665 Bytes
    
    Colours: 256 or less
    original palette size:     129,  8 bpp
    Image size is 16x16  memory required=0.001MB
    new palette size:         129,  8 bpp
    /f0 /b0 /d8
    /f0 /b256 /d8
    /f5 /b0 /d8
    /f5 /b256 /d8
    /f0 /b0 /d4
    /f0 /b256 /d4
    /f5 /b0 /d4
    /f5 /b256 /d4
    Using PNGOUT   Palette Index: /d8  /f5  Use C3:YES
    Using Original Palette Index: /d8  /f0
    "dChoiceBest.png" size: 706 bytes dChoiceBest-kp.png size: 713 bytes
    ELSE "dChoiceBest.png" above should be SMALLER than dChoiceBest-kp.png
    
    Letting PNGOUT regenerate the palette index
    The batch immediately exits, the command prompt disappears, and I'm left with a
    flag_red2.png-shtemp folder with a bunch of iterations of the image (more than what's left after running it from the command line).

    I'm running this in Windows XP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Intrinsic View Post
    The pause is just something i left in there accidentally while i was debugging, easy to remove ;p only appears in /c3 images afaik. I lost track of where i was anyways as had started a total rewrite as it was a mess code wise.

    That odd exit could be a failure somewhere unless it seems fine, or you can also add DOPUS to the calling line at the end ie i have it set as a context menu option(see linked img for examples) in explorer which calls:
    start /wait /low shrinkpng {file} DOPUS

    So it EXITs differently, which may solve the problem. I've made some small updates to it last year so maybe i could do a quick clean up to remove annoying things like that.

    I have also started very slowely on another little tool to help in dev as there have been some new PNG related tools released which help compression, dumps all the data out as a CSV so i can more easily examine the data. ie:

    "Strategy","ColourType","Filter","BlockSplitThresh old","HuffmanBlocks","ColourDepth","PaletteSort"," Size","Notes "
    1,2,3,,7,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,128,,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,136,,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,144,,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,152,,24,,213146,
    1,2,3,,8,24,,213156,
    1,2,3,112,,24,,213156,
    1,2,3,120,,24,,213156,
    1,2,3,,9,24,,213206,
    1,2,3,96,,24,,213206,
    1,2,3,104,,24,,213206,

    Plus it runs in 4 threads atm so it's pretty quick on multicore CPUs. ShrinkPNG could be made multithreaded with some work. Testing on small files in XP though is odd with 2+ threads running, as it goes nuts and sometimes just resets my machine, in Win7 it's fine. So I guess it's an XP issue and would add a note/option regarding that to switch to single thread on XP if using small files. Would be interesting to also see if others have this same problem in XP or if it's just me ;p

  24. #54
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    Heya sorry i'm still having problems with RSI/Carpel Tunnel and have started a course of injections into my wrist to try help but it's not working that well. So have been unable todo any work on this :/
    If you could give me a link to that problem file i'll have a look at it.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intrinsic View Post
    Heya sorry i'm still having problems with RSI/Carpel Tunnel and have started a course of injections into my wrist to try help but it's not working that well. So have been unable todo any work on this :/
    If you could give me a link to that problem file i'll have a look at it.
    Sorry, I didn't check earlier. The image in question is:



    I'll attach it to this post in case it something ever happens to photobucket.

    [edit: the problem may only be with small PNGs]
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by earthsound; 19th September 2011 at 23:18. Reason: additional info

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